Reading the title of this article you’re probably thinking we’ve lost ours minds here at the Hub. I assure you we are quite sane. The simple truth is that grifball does not require skill. It’s a game which is not very competitive and takes little time to master. That is at least what many ignorant folks in the Halo/Bungie community would like for you to believe.
Recently Jacen Solo, a long time member of the grifball community has taken the lead in debating the possibility of having the double XP grifball playlist in Halo 3 matchmaking ranked a couple times during the year. It’s not an argument for a permanent playlist. It’s simply a plea by the community to have a couple weekends where the games played in the grifball playlist would be fair and competitive for all that participate. This includes not only the grifball league members that frequent the playlist, but also less skilled players who aren’t members of any leagues.
“There is no skill involved with grifball so a ranking system would not mean anything.” ~ SatansReverence (from Bungie.net discussion)
The above quote echoes the opinion of many opposed to grifball being a part-time ranked double XP playlist and it is quite honestly one of the most ignorant things I’ve read related to the game of grifball. The problem, of course, is that many not involved with the league who have played grifball in matchmaking have only experienced it that way. If you play a few games against inexperienced players, chances are the skill on display is not going to be anything to brag about.
In the case of grifball and its double XP playlist, first impressions should not be your last impression. In order to properly appreciate the game, its level of competitiveness, teamwork and skill it requires, I would suggest observing this game film from a Summer league playoff game between the Cuban Raft Riders and eventual champion Shut Your Lips and Learn.
The simple truth is that the game of grifball when played at its most competitive levels, as evidenced by the film, does indeed require skill, an enormous amount of teamwork and strategy. Just because there are no battle rifles or sniper rifles involved, that does not make it any less legitimate as a game that should be taken more seriously. It’s really not that much of a stretch to make comparisons with another team and skill oriented gametype, MLG.
“I think both games require A TON of team oriented skill. MLG requires communication, set-ups, double BRs, etc, and that’s only in slayer games. Objective games require insane team strategies, set ups, etc(the same things as before but to a greater extent). Grifball requires the same things, and more. It requires communication, double teams, and deep strategies within every position that come together. Team skill is extremely important in grifball, which is why you see players going -41 and sticking with the top team in the league. You see teams all going negative that win, simply because of team work. You link me to a game in a few weeks in meadow lands where the k/d difference between the 2 teams is over 100, with the negative team coming out on top and I’ll quickly change my opinion.” ~ Twizzted Status
As Twizzted writes, the skill, teamwork and dedication required to not only earn but maintain a skill level of 50 in a ranked grifball playlist would be a major factor and not unlike the amount of skill and teamwork it would require to reach a level 50 in the MLG playlist.
“A 50 in grifball would be as good as a 1 in grifball.” ~ SatansReverence (from Bungie.net discussion)
This is perhaps the most ignorant statement I’ve read in regards to a ranked grifball playlist and is again another attack on the amount of skill required to play the game well. I can absolutely guarantee that a team comprised of entry level players with little to no skill in grifball simply would not beat a team of skilled players who’ve earned a 50 in the playlist. The difference between a level 1 and a level 50 would be enormous.
“As for the comments about grifball generals being illegitimate, and that earning one does not/would not take any skill, that’s bullshit. Once you get to the higher ranks, you’d be playing TEAMS. Teams that take the game seriously, teams that have been playing for ages, teams that a random kid who’s trying to get a 50 simply WOULD NOT beat. Don’t believe me? Try playing a top team.” ~ Twizzted Status
Regardless of the skill and teamwork that come with a competitive game of grifball, perhaps an even larger argument from many in the Halo community is that a non-permanent ranked grifball playlist would somehow skew ranked stats and medals earned.
“Social stats already mean nothing thanks to griffball and you want to ruin rank stats too?” ~ SatansReverence (from Bungie.net discussion)
Again this is another quote which seems to echo the sentiment of many in the Halo/Bungie community and it’s one which makes little sense. Unless you decide to play grifball in its current social form or in a ranked form, how exactly does it ruin the stats of everyone? A more intelligent argument could be that it would ruin the stats of those who choose to play it, by potentially inflating their kill/death ratio and allowing them to earn multi-kill medals that otherwise probably wouldn’t be earned. Of course saying that it will ruin stats is nothing more than opinion. I’m of the opinion that it won’t ruin my stats simply because I pay little to no attention to them. Seriously the solution is simple, if you’re so worried about your stats being skewed by grifball, don’t play it.
The ranked grifball debate is one that could rage on forever. Many people have very strong opinions in favor of it, while many will be just as strongly against it. The good news is that it seems we may at least be getting through to those that we need to at Bungie.
“If the Grifball commissioner asks me to make the playlist ranked, I’ll consider it. But I’m not going to do it without RvB and the league’s expressed consent.” ~ Shishka (Bungie Playlist Overlord)
While it’s no guarantee that we’ll have a ranked playlist in the future, it’s progress and that’s a good start. You can expect the Spring League admins and commissioner to be on board with the idea of a ranked grifball playlist, so the final decision will rest with Bungie.
A final note: Originally the plan was to capture the Cuban Raft Riders/Shut Your Lips and Learn film and present it here on the hub, however considering the rather large file size that would require, I made the decision to link to the film on Bungie. Instead of watching in a streaming format, you’ll simply need to download the MUCH smaller file to your XBOX and watch the film via the Theater in Halo 3.
Also I’d like to thank Twizzter (aka Twizzted Status) for his contributions to this article. They were very much appreciated.
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Actually no, I’m pretty sure I didn’t ask Toktyn to post in my defense. I’m going out on a limb here, but I’m guessing he chose the option to be notified of replies. That’s typically what most do.
As I said, I replied in kind to your retarded argument with a retarded statement because honestly I didn’t really feel it was worthy of much more.
I’m not looking for a flame war at all. Again as I mentioned, if you’d like to debate the topic intelligently, present to me an intelligent argument and not one that involves “SHOOTING” as its basis. Until then I have nothing further to discuss with you.
Well actually I do, it’s “you’re”, not your. Any 15 year old knows that.
wow you still have yet to state any legitimate argument as to why the nooby griffball should be its own ranked playlist. you fail so hard and just keep making yourself look even more retarded.
I’m pretty sure I wrote the entire article in which you’ve been replying to as my argument. Now I ask you again, please provide me with an intelligent argument that doesn’t include SHOOTING as its basis.
Next time you return, please bring some proper grammar and punctuation with you.
@ _D1rty
You haven’t made an argument worth actually discussing, but if you insist on pursuing your weak side of the topic, fine.
Halo is an FPS because of the stylization of the game and the perspective it is played from, not because it uses projectile weapons. By claiming that this game-type is “nooby” (wonderfully intelligent word by the way) and doesn’t deserved to be ranked in DXP (once again no one is asking to make the playlist permanent) strictly on the basis that all the weapons are melee based shows you have no knowledge of videogame-play whatsoever. Nearly every FPS has a melee system of some kind, and Halo’s is a huge part of the way the game is played. So don’t claim the game-type is weak or “nooby” because it uses one specific aspect of play you probably suck at.
And to jab at another post of yours
I’m making a logical jump here in saying that since you don’t work for Bungie or RT, you have no business making any claim about why Grifball was created or what overall purpose it was to serve.
Seriously. You may practice with your BR as much as we do with our hammer and swords. Just because we decide not to practice and have 1337 BR 5K!LL5 doesn’t mean we don’t have 1337 H4MM3R 5K1LL5.
Now You’re going to say the teams that are ranked 1# in rocket race are nooby too?
Skill is skill regardless of which “gametype” it is, just because you don’t agree or refuse to acknowledge it.
Also, connection dependent weapons.. Yea the BR doesn’t have that same problem does it? Aren’t you supposed to lead with your BR and make adjustments accordingly? Isn’t this the same thing that differentiates MLG players from Great MLG players?
How is Grifball any different?
MLG = Practice for hours on strats and comms
Grifball = Same
MLG = exploits of spawns
GB = Exploits doesn’t justify what we do to spawns
MLG = Skill and practice with every weapon
GB = Same
MLG = Defense and Team BR’s
GB = Defense without betrayals and Double teams.
I don’t understand the skill it takes to play MLG at the PRO level but I doubt you understand the skill it takes to compete with the top Grifball teams either.
Matt1983, I believe you just got RAPED, homey.
P.S. _d1rty is Matt1983.
There are a lot of opinions about this subject. One fact, however, is that the grav. hammer is unlike any other weapon in Halo.
To say there is no skill required in using it, is ignorance of its capabilities. The weapon requires knowledge of timing and range. It ls has the versatility of acting as a “low-level” grav. lift. Most advanced Grif players have learned techniques such as the “Spawn Bonk” launch and the “Inside Out” launch. This makes the comparison to MLG, or any other gametype invalid.
IMHO the only thing that can be compared to Grifball is Hammer Hill and other similar melee hammer/sword combo modes.
Because there is such a following of the sport (yes it has become an online sport), the best way to host is for Bungie to add it as a ranked game in the playlist. And, possibly, host the Grifball leagues or tournaments.
If other online games (like WoW)can make changes and patches to keep players involved, why can’t Bungie make one that is so obvious?
Honestly, I find this entire argument offensive.
I’ve been playing MLG since 06′, and I feel like comparing MLG to Griffball is just dumb. MLG isn’t about who’s BR is better, it’s about MAP AND WEAPON CONTROL. MLG players have to worry about weapons spawning, power-ups, where the other team is spawning, where THEY are spawning, all while the other team knows their strategy and where nearly every player on their own team is and will be. And, while all of this is going through their head, they have to keep calm, communicate with their team, and not choke on their BR.
Griff Ball is fun, don’t get me wrong, and it does require STRATEGY, but there is no skill involved whatsoever. It is my firm belief that any person here who has played against a Semi-Pro, or even high ranked GB team would agree that MLG takes much more strategy than this fun little game.
As for making this ranked: It definitely takes more skill than AR start Team Slayer, and is a helluva lot more fun, so why not?
This article wasn’t written as an attempt to offend anyone. It was written as an argument for those who claim there is no skill required for grifball, which is an ignorant statement to make without having every played it competitively. And by competitively I mean outside of double XP against people who are insanely good at the game, not double XP randoms. At any rate apologies if you found it offensive. The comparison was made however to point out that each game requires skill, just differently.
Of course your argument, like most, is that it doesn’t require skill, so I’d like to make a challenge to you. Assemble a team of your MLG friends that you believe would be competent and talented enough to play a game of highly competitive grifball, and I’ll set up a game for you all with last season’s grifball pro league champions. It may just change your mind about the skill factor.
I’m sure they’d be more than happy to play an MLG gametype with your team as well, to be completely fair. You might actually be surprised to learn just how many grifball players enjoy playing the MLG playlist.
BTW, I appreciate your support for a ranked playlist. It will indeed be ranked soon. Whether it will be just for one weekend or several matters not. It’s something those of us in our community are looking forward to. While we enjoy the unranked double XP, I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t get old rolling over inexperienced players game after game. Hopefully a ranked playlist will help change that.
I’ll accept the challenge. I’ll have to find some competent players, which may take some time, since most of the people on my list will give me a response similar to “A Griffball team? I’d be the laughing stock of the MLG Forums”-Revan
I’d also like a day or so to review the opposing teams strats.
How should I contact you once my team is ready?
Awesome :)
You can contact me at mike@grifballhub.com. Right now my friends list is topped out at 100, but my gamertag is puptastrophe.
I’ll need a bit of time too, as I’ll need to talk to the guys from last season’s pro league winning team. If for any reason some (or all of them) are unable to, I’m quite sure I could still assemble a team of Pro league players for the challenge.
My hope is that the games, while competitive, will also be friendly.
The only problem i would have about playing MLG as well would be if we beat them in both gametypes, it may just appear we are better overall gamers. But nonetheless im up for both.
I am totally pumped about this… and I am totally playing in this.
Dibs.
shadow says:
“The only problem I would have about playing MLG as well would be if we beat them in both gametypes, it may just appear we are better overall gamers. But nonetheless I’m up for both.”
batty says:
Wasn’t that the original claim… to prove/disprove that MLG requires a player of a higher caliber than Grifball?
I’m glad shadow is so confident in his skills, but he may later decide it would’ve been more prudent to face an ammy team (after the pros get one hammering him into the court).
batty says:
Wasn’t that the original claim… to prove/disprove that MLG requires a player of a higher caliber than Grifball?
I’m glad shadow is so confident in his skills, but he may later decide it would’ve been more prudent to face an ammy team (after the pros get one hammering him into the court).
Hey bro you know im on Shut Your Lips and Learn and IM the one facing the MLG team right?
Didn’t realize it was a comment from you. I didn’t even pay attention to the name, thought it was still _D1rty or Callouts talking the ego.
It seems that they haven’t considered that SYLaL could possibly win both gametypes… hope somebody posts video afterward .
I wonder where a video like that could be posted for interested viewers and not get lost on a video site like YouTube?
(hinting at pup) *wink wink nudge nudge*
If the game does indeed happen, and it’s looking like it will, I’ve asked Shadow to save game films. So, I’ll see what I can do.